[Clam-devel] Formats & Protocols for 3D scenes...

[Xavier Amatriain]

Hi Natael,

Interesting question but I am afraid there is no easy answer.

First (and just to add some more confussion :-), another possibility 
would be using VML from the Verse project [1]. This project is very much 
related to Blender (one of the partners) and although using VML would 
tie us into their data model, Verse is released with a BSD license.

As for SPATDIF I am not sure this is currently anything more than 
wishful thinking. I know they are organizing a panel for this year's 
ICMC and I know some of the people involved. Knowing the fate of SDIF I 
doubt this will ever become a standard. Another downside is that I don't 
think it will have integration with 3D graphics anytime soon. That said, 
we have always tried to use SDIF in CLAM as an open interchange format 
for synthesis data so using SPATDIF would make sense... if it is in any 
usable form now.

Using BIFS and AudioBIFS [2] would seem a good idea, especially knowing 
that SDIF can be transcoded into SAOL and this can be used inside 
AudioBIFS [3]. Note that BIFS is not combined with VRML, it is simply an 
extension of it. The downside is that I think there is no open reference 
implementation of this that I know of (although Ross has implemented 
this in audiomulch [4]).

Finally, I think X3D shares a lot with BIFS. As a matter of fact the 
MPEG standard already includes a link to X3D [5]

So, probably if I had to chose out of the box I would go with BIFS. 
Still, I think the issue requires some more time to study and maybe even 
some preliminary tests to see how things would look one way or the other.

Hope it helps!

[1] http://verse.blender.org/vml/
[2] http://sound.media.mit.edu/mpeg4/sa-bifs.html
[3] 
http://archive.cnmat.berkeley.edu/ICMC99/papers/saol+sdif/icmc99-saol+sdif.pdf
[4] http://www.audiomulch.com/~rossb/code/sa/SAQuickref.htm
[5] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X3D

Natanael Olaiz wrote:
> Hi!
>
> For my SoC proposal, I'm wondering about the formats and protocols to 
> use in the Blender/CLAM integration. So, I want to ask you for your 
> opinions.
>
> The basic idea is to import 3D Blender scene objects parameters onto 
> CLAM, on RT and offline. For RT I talked to Pau to use Open Sound 
> Control, but anyway I need to define some 3D Scene descriptor format 
> to use over it. For the offline implementation I need to define also 
> the intermediate file format.
>
> I think a great option could be to use SpatDIF [1], since it claims to 
> be a standard for this kind of data. It uses OSC for RT, and SDIF as a 
> intermediate file format for non-RT purposes. The only problem that I 
> see with it is that is a new proposal, and I didn't found so many 
> implementations yet (so, I don't know if it would be a real standard).
> I also saw that the MPEG4 standard uses BIFS [2] + VRML. As I 
> understand, this option is more closed, but could be interesting to 
> make a MPEG4 render system within CLAM. Plus, I saw that X3D [3] is 
> some kind of sucessor of VRML (with the advantage of using an new XML 
> format instead the binary of the VRML+BIFS), in which the sound is 
> integrated too [4]. But as I saw, the free implementations (of 
> browsers and editors) of X3D are not so good right now, and the major 
> ones are in Java (language that I don't know well -and neither 
> like...-). BTW, there is an available Blender X3D exporter plugin 
> right now...
>
> What the CLAM gurues think about it? I saw that there is some 
> mpeg-spectral-descriptors code in CLAM... so, do you want to improve 
> the mpeg support with X3D, or just use a new proposed open standard 
> (SpatDIF)?
>
> Anyway, it wouldn't be so difficult to make one using the other as a 
> base...
>
>
> Best regards,
> Natanael.
>
> [1] Spatial Sound Description Interchange Format: 
> http://www.jamoma.org/wiki/SpatDIFSpatialSoundDescriptionInterchangeFormat 
>
> [2] BInary Format for Scene: 
> http://www.chiariglione.org/mpeg/technologies/mp04-bifs/index.htm
> [3] X3D specs: http://www.web3d.org/x3d/specifications/
> [4] X3D and VRML Sound Components: 
> http://www.tml.tkk.fi/Opinnot/Tik-111.590/2002s/Paperit/pohja_x3d_sound_OK.pdf 
>
>
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