Greg,<br><br>I see. That makes sense.<br>I would not expect to have good loops without crossfading.<br>It seems that one can't say much about the quality of the loop until he could hear the loop with crossfading.<br>I need to look into LoopingSDIFFileReader before I can tell more about the loops that the loopMaker found.<br>
<br>I did some test with my oboe samples and the loop (precise to sample) sound very good with zero crossings/no crossfading.<br>Thanks for your reminder.<br><br>Best regards,<br>Han, Yushen<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">
On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 12:41 AM, Greg Kellum <<a href="mailto:greg.kellum@gmail.com">greg.kellum@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Hi Yushen,<br>
<br>
The loop making algorithm is not trying to match up the start and end<br>
points exactly so that you could just loop there; it's intended to be<br>
used together with crossfading. In my own experience trying to match<br>
up the zero crossings rather than cross fading doesn't work well;<br>
Trying that in Kontakt always sounded like crap, but I suppose if<br>
you're trying to loop very harmonic material with a stable period it<br>
could work... In any case the looping algorithm is looking for<br>
spectrally similar frames, and then in my synth, they are crossfaded.<br>
This happens in the class LoopingSDIFFileReader... Before you<br>
re-implement the algorithm you might want to try looping your material<br>
in Kontakt or some other sampler to see if you can get a good loop<br>
using only zero crossings and no crossfading...<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
<font color="#888888">Greg<br>
</font><div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c"><br>
<br>
On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 10:10 PM, Han, Yushen <<a href="mailto:yushen.han@gmail.com">yushen.han@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> Hi,<br>
><br>
> I forget to mention that the most of my samples are 1 - 1.5 sec long. (oboe)<br>
> The stable state is as long as 1 sec usually, which is way too short for<br>
> Greg's algorithm.<br>
><br>
> I could get some good loops if I specify the startSample and endSample.<br>
> But startTime endTime (in ms) did not generate good loops.<br>
><br>
> Best regards,<br>
> Han, Yushen<br>
><br>
> On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 4:07 PM, Han, Yushen <<a href="mailto:yushen.han@gmail.com">yushen.han@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Hi, Pau and Greg<br>
>><br>
>> Thanks to Greg's reply, I am able to covert my audio samples to SDIF and<br>
>> identify loops ( with startTime/endTime in ms specified in a .XML file).<br>
>> But If I extract the loop with startTime/endTime from the SDIF file, the<br>
>> loops contain "clicks" and hence sound bad.<br>
>><br>
>> Here I suspect hat a ms may not be the best unit to specify a loop.<br>
>> e.g. suppose SR = 44100 Hz, HOP = 256 samples (as used in Greg's code),<br>
>> for a note C4 (f = 261.6Hz), we will have 3.8ms per period i.e 168.8<br>
>> samples per period.<br>
>> The fraction will lead to round error if we specify the loop by ms.<br>
>><br>
>> In the hope that a sample-by-sample approach will avoid the click,<br>
>> I am trying to develop my algorithm to identify an optimal loop based on<br>
>> the best f0 given by<br>
>> segment.GetFrame(counter).GetFundamental();<br>
>><br>
>> However, I check out the reference for segment, frame, and audio but did<br>
>> not know how to specify the unit by sample.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> <a href="http://www.clam.iua.upf.edu/doc/CLAM-devel-doxygen/classCLAM_1_1Segment.html" target="_blank">http://www.clam.iua.upf.edu/doc/CLAM-devel-doxygen/classCLAM_1_1Segment.html</a><br>
>> <a href="http://www.clam.iua.upf.edu/doc/CLAM-devel-doxygen/classCLAM_1_1Audio.html" target="_blank">http://www.clam.iua.upf.edu/doc/CLAM-devel-doxygen/classCLAM_1_1Audio.html</a><br>
>><br>
>> Do you agree that it is the reason why the loop sounds like "clicking"?<br>
>> Do you know if there is a way to refer to a chunk of audio by sample?<br>
>> Thanks!<br>
>><br>
>> Best regards,<br>
>> Han, Yushen<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 6:51 AM, Pau Arumí <<a href="mailto:parumi@iua.upf.edu">parumi@iua.upf.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> On dj, 2008-05-22 at 03:11 -0400, Han, Yushen wrote:<br>
>>> > Hi, Greg and Pau<br>
>>> ><br>
>>> > I did some tests on SDIF files out of wave files and so far it works<br>
>>> > fine.<br>
>>> > Now I am trying to find out the loop of a single note and store the<br>
>>> > loop in .xml file.<br>
>>> > Here I have questions for each of you separately:<br>
>>> ><br>
>>> > (1) for Greg<br>
>>> > I compiled your makeLoop (from the examples folder) successfully.<br>
>>> > But if I specify the start time and the end time of the steady state,<br>
>>> > makeLoopExe always "calculate 0 EarthMover's distance".<br>
>>> > If I do not specify the time, makeLoopExe would never finish. ( it<br>
>>> > gives dots ".................." )<br>
>>> ><br>
>>> > Did you notice this problem before? Maybe it only happened to me.<br>
>>> ><br>
>>> > Also, in your previous message you said you "turned off the database<br>
>>> > lookup function".<br>
>>> > Can you please explain more about what "the lookup function" is<br>
>>> > supposed to do and why you turned it off?<br>
>>> ><br>
>>> > ( I could see that you disabled the residual part in the SDIFInConfig.<br>
>>> > But I am not sure if this is what you were talking about... )<br>
>>> ><br>
>>> > (2) for Pau:<br>
>>> > So far we have not decide which woodwind instrument we should work<br>
>>> > with.<br>
>>> > Should I work on Saxophone or Oboe?<br>
>>> > Do we have annotated saxophone notes from SALTO with all loop<br>
>>> > identified?<br>
>>> ><br>
>>> > I cut and labeled 72 oboe notes recorded in an anechoic chamber by<br>
>>> > hand (24 pitches C4-B5 * 3 different dynamics).<br>
>>> > It will take a while to find the loop for those notes. Before I<br>
>>> > proceed, I would like to make sure I am working on the right<br>
>>> > instrument :-)<br>
>>><br>
>>> Hi Yushen,<br>
>>><br>
>>> Yes please, proceed with your oboe notes.<br>
>>> I'll also search for the old-salto saxophoe database, but there are<br>
>>> chances they are not available.<br>
>>> It would be interesting to work with a couple (or more) instruments,<br>
>>> though we can concentrate on the sound quality for only one of them.<br>
>>> I think that working with multiple instruments will force us to improve<br>
>>> the tools for creating instruments, which should be one of the goals.<br>
>>> Another goal i'd like to propose is offering transformations not typical<br>
>>> in time-domain based samples, taking advantage of the underlying<br>
>>> spectral model. Timber morphing from one instrument to another is the<br>
>>> first that comes to my mind.<br>
>>> Of course, the first milestone is having a usable instrument.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Pau<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> ><br>
>>> > Best regards,<br>
>>> > Han, Yushen<br>
>>> ><br>
>>> > On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 10:35 AM, Greg Kellum <<a href="mailto:greg.kellum@gmail.com">greg.kellum@gmail.com</a>><br>
>>> > wrote:<br>
>>> > Hi,<br>
>>> ><br>
>>> > In response to point 3, I turned off the database lookup<br>
>>> > function at<br>
>>> > some point, because of an exception that kept occurring... I<br>
>>> > can't<br>
>>> > remember whether I eventually fixed this or not. I'll have to<br>
>>> > check...<br>
>>> ><br>
>>> > Greg<br>
>>> ><br>
>>> ><br>
>>> > On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 6:04 PM, Han, Yushen<br>
>>> > <<a href="mailto:yushen.han@gmail.com">yushen.han@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>> > > Hello, Pau<br>
>>> > ><br>
>>> > > Thanks for your concerns. Here is some update from me.<br>
>>> > ><br>
>>> > > 1. Based on Greg's last update, I am able to compile the<br>
>>> > command-line<br>
>>> > > version of continuousExcitationSynthesizer.<br>
>>> > > Also, I can read the XML file where the looping information<br>
>>> > is stored with<br>
>>> > > his metadata reader.<br>
>>> > > As for SDIF, I am able to use CLAM/examples/SDIF2Wav and<br>
>>> > Wav2SDIF to convert<br>
>>> > > between SDIF and WAV.<br>
>>> > ><br>
>>> > > 2. In the NetworkEditor, I still could not have<br>
>>> > "SDIFDatabaseProcessing".<br>
>>> > > (Greg had reported that he fixed this problem.)<br>
>>> > > Right now I don't really use the network editor but the<br>
>>> > command-line<br>
>>> > > executable version.<br>
>>> > ><br>
>>> > > To resume our remote debugging, last time you concluded<br>
>>> > > "It seems your OS is not loading some of the processings. To<br>
>>> > confirm<br>
>>> > > this: how many processings do you have in the 3D Audio<br>
>>> > category?<br>
>>> > > You should see 14."<br>
>>> > > However, I only had 1 processing - VectorBasedArrayPanning<br>
>>> > available after<br>
>>> > > compiling that 3D plugin.<br>
>>> > ><br>
>>> > > 3. I did some experiment with 12 oboe notes in one octave<br>
>>> > and concluded that<br>
>>> > > if there is only one source sounding,<br>
>>> > > the first 4 harmonics are quite in phase ( I only observe<br>
>>> > the first 4<br>
>>> > > harmonics). Therefore I was thinking that we may disregard<br>
>>> > the instantaneous<br>
>>> > > phase in the SMS. However, this is not true for an<br>
>>> > orchestra.<br>
>>> > ><br>
>>> > > "- [2+ days] To investigate the effect of slowly-changing<br>
>>> > phase changes<br>
>>> > > between different partials<br>
>>> > > on the perception of the harmonic sound. If the<br>
>>> > slowly-change phase did<br>
>>> > > not affect the sound<br>
>>> > > very much ( suppose all harmonics are all in phase ),<br>
>>> > further<br>
>>> > > simplification in synthesis<br>
>>> > > could be done. This experiment is open to suggestion<br>
>>> > from the mentor."<br>
>>> > > I will write to you separately about that and more raw<br>
>>> > ideas.<br>
>>> > ><br>
>>> > > 4. Right now I am trying to modify Greg's code and Wav2SDIF<br>
>>> > example for:<br>
>>> > > "- [1-2 days] To synthesize with SMS with the analysis<br>
>>> > result (in a simple<br>
>>> > > setting).<br>
>>> > > To produce some audible result to evaluate the performance<br>
>>> > of SMS<br>
>>> > > analysis/transformation."<br>
>>> > ><br>
>>> > > It seemed that the Wav2SDIF example had done the majority of<br>
>>> > the work.<br>
>>> > > I am studying the code but I don't know if I could improve<br>
>>> > this part.<br>
>>> > > Do you recommend me to read some updated documents on SDIF?<br>
>>> > > <a href="http://www.cnmat.berkeley.edu/SDIF/" target="_blank">http://www.cnmat.berkeley.edu/SDIF/</a> does not seem to be very<br>
>>> > recent.<br>
>>> > ><br>
>>> > > 5. I apologize for my late updating.<br>
>>> > > I am thinking of keeping a blog on this project...<br>
>>> > ><br>
>>> > > Best regards,<br>
>>> > > Han, Yushen<br>
>>> > ><br>
>>> > ><br>
>>> > ><br>
>>> > ><br>
>>> > > On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 7:40 AM, Pau Arumí<br>
>>> > <<a href="mailto:parumi@iua.upf.edu">parumi@iua.upf.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
>>> > >><br>
>>> > >> Hello Yushen,<br>
>>> > >><br>
>>> > >> how is all doing? I'd like to hear in what you are up<br>
>>> > regarding your<br>
>>> > >> project.<br>
>>> > >><br>
>>> > >> are you still blocked with the plugin installation? in that<br>
>>> > case is it<br>
>>> > >> possible for you have also a linux box?<br>
>>> > >><br>
>>> > >> i'd like you to write some raw ideas about what to be<br>
>>> > implemented and<br>
>>> > >> some planning, and then i'll comment and keep refining the<br>
>>> > planning.<br>
>>> > >> is that ok?<br>
>>> > >><br>
>>> > >> cheers!<br>
>>> > >> pau<br>
>>> > >><br>
>>> > >><br>
>>> > ><br>
>>> > ><br>
>>> ><br>
>>> ><br>
>>><br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br>